Quintilian & Augustine
Week 11 Notes (ENGL 8170)
Note to Dr. Pullman: I have tried to indicate my own commentary with the use of double asterisks, but I often create memorable (for me) headings/titles/intros for quotations that do not employ the asterisks. And it does appear that the interface of this submission page is working better to preserve some of the formatting from my original Word document which I pasted in.
Quintilian
“In English translation, he is usually referred to as Quintilian (/kw?n?t?li?n/), although the alternate spellings of Quintillian and Quinctilian are occasionally seen, the latter in older texts” (Wikipedia). **Ah, the good old days before the divorce of creativity and spelling. I would have been much more comfortable as a pre-standardized English writer.
(Wikipedia) Institutio Oratoria is a twelve-volume textbook on the theory and practice of rhetoric by Roman rhetorician Quintilian. It was published around year 95 AD. The work deals also with the foundational education and development of the orator himself. **It seems appropriate to include the context of a writer’s education/life in any major work. I think the back of the book jacket blurbs are usually insufficient for providing what could be helpful context to any work of non-fiction or fiction. Sometimes we get a decent preface, but those are not always biographical enough.**
Quintilian establishes that the perfect orator is first a good man, and after that he is a good speaker. **Character precedes oratory skill. So this would separate the perfect orator from sophistry (if all sophistry aims for persuasion regardless of righteousness.) I do need to work out a better definition of sophistry for myself that accounts for any possible wavering, shifting on the idea of righteousness as necessary for the speaker/writer.**
“After his death, Quintilian's influence fluctuated. He was mentioned by his pupil, Pliny, and by Juvenal, who may have been another student, "as an example of sobriety and of worldly success unusual in the teaching profession" **Sober and successful. Perhaps the former led to the latter. The trope of the alcoholic teacher has deep roots.**
“…he ‘provided the inspiration for a new humanistic philosophy of education’ **Was was this humanistic philosophy and how did it differ from former philosophies?**
The TRIVIUM—late 8th century AD, medeval—rhetoric as art of persuasion, grammar, and logic/dialectic **this was part of the Wikipedia link on rhetoric and I think it helps me understand the concept of rhetoric better in relation to the other named components of the trivium. So my paraphrase would be that the trivium meant speaking well (grammar), speaking sense (logic/dialected), and speaking persuasively (rhetoric). It does get complicated when these concepts keep getting broken down further into two’s and three’s etc. (like with rhetoric being broken down as logos, ethos, pathos).
**I think it would be interesting to look at the Quintilian source through the UX lens. I like the way I can jump to portions of the full text through the initial page, but I also think having that ToC on the full text page (perhaps on the right margin) would make it even better. Toggling between the pages is annoying.**
Quintilian as the optimist: “most [children] are quick to reason and ready to learn.” **a teacher must maintain a certain level of optimism to avoid becoming jaded and cynical. I work at an open enrollment institution and teach students who are (by their placement scores/high school GPA) not prepared for college English. Many fail to get through 1101, but we try to focus on the victories to keep our morale stronger. And I can also identify with Q’s sentiment about education always providing some benefit—even to those who dismally fail a class. There is plenty to be learned in failing—more so than in succeeding even.**
The role of the nurse and the mother: “Above all see that the child's nurse speaks correctly. The ideal, according to Chrysippus, would be that she should be a philosopher: failing that he desired that the best should be chosen, as far as possible. No doubt the most important point is that they should be of good character: but they should speak correctly as well. 5 It is the nurse that the child first hears, and her words that he will first attempt to imitate.” **So this does not make clear the role of the mother, but the fact that he acknowledges the power of the female caretaker in the child’s intellectual development is interesting. And that a nurse could be a “philosopher.” Were the nurses typically schooled?**
Importance of education for men and women: “As regards parents, I should like to see them as highly educated as possible, and I do not restrict this remark to fathers alone.”
**Q is assuming there are parents who wanted and sought after the path for their children to grow up to be orators. He seems to be indicating that this was a legit option for some. Was he selling a dream that was too idealistic because he kind of had to believe in his own life/value? **
**Interesting thoughts on when children should start reading. Q says many hold that 7 is the appropriate age. His point about “sparing the teacher” is funny.**
“there is the historical narrative, which is an exposition of actual fact... whose force is in proportion to its truth.” **Sometimes there is dispute over how “factual” historical texts were intended to be—the Old and New Testaments are specific examples where people have major stakes on the validity of claims. This quote is illuminating to some degree in that it shows us that, at least as early as Q’s time, historical narratives were intended to be factual. Q does make mention of “imaginitive excess” in historical narrative and says that this fault is not as bad as “poverty of wit.”**
Why should the children be trained in all disciplines? A: The perfect orator should know all subjects so “he should never trip even in the smallest trifles.”
Strong praise of music and its connection literature: “Who is ignorant of the fact that music, of which I will speak first, was in ancient times the object not merely of intense study but of veneration: in fact Orpheus and Linus, to mention no others, were regarded as uniting the roles of musician, poet and philosopher. Both were of divine origin, while the former, because by the marvel of his music he soothed the savage breast, is recorded to have drawn after him not merely beasts of the wild, but rocks and trees. 10 So too Timagenes asserts that music is the oldest of the arts related to literature, a statement which is confirmed by the testimony of the greatest of poets in whose songs we read that the praise of heroes and of gods were sung to the music of the lyre at the feasts of kings.”
Q says good oratory should be, in a sense, musical.
**I think the argument for an interdisciplinary approach to teaching oratory/rhetoric is a good, if somewhat impractical, idea. I wish my students had more knowledge in all areas to draw from. How much of their ignorance should I/we attribute to their youth? Environment? American culture?**
Q apologizes for the dry nature of the section **I make a very similar apology when it is time to teach documentation**
Augustine
Auggie agrees with Cicero that rhetoric should “teach, delight, and move” though he departs from Cicero in other ways. **That is a lovely way to think about the potential of rhetoric. Seems like it should be the goal.**
Parataxis: I came, I saw, I conquered. (avoids subordiating words, can still use coordinating conjunctions but better without)
**Book I begins with a great discussion of rhetoric (chapter 2), and it provides a good defense for both studying and using rhetoric ethically.**
“Now, the art of rhetoric being available for the enforcing either of truth or falsehood, who will dare to say that truth in the person of its defenders is to take its stand unarmed against falsehood? For example, that those who are trying to persuade men of what is false are to know how to introduce their subject, so as to put the hearer into a friendly, or attentive, or teachable frame of mind, while the defenders of the truth shall be ignorant of that art? That the former are to tell their falsehoods briefly, clearly, and plausibly, while the latter shall tell the truth in such a way that it is tedious to listen to, hard to understand, and, in fine, not easy to believe it? That the former are to oppose the truth and defend falshood with sophistical arguments, while the latter shall be unable either to defend what it true, or to refute what is false? That the former, while imbuing the minds of their hearers with erroneous opinions, are by their power of speech to awe, to melt, to enliven, and to rouse them, while the latter shall in defense of the truth be sluggish, and frigid, and somnolent? Who is such a fool as to think this wisdom? Since, then, the faculty of eloquence is available for both sides, and is of very great service in the enforcing either of wrong or right, why do not good men study to engage it on the side of truth, when bad men use it to obtain the triumph of wicked and worthless causes, and to further injustice and error?”
**Note to self and Pullman: DO NOT TRUST ChatGPT FOR SPECIFIC QUOTES FROM WORKS. I asked for some of the most well-known from Book IV and it gave me the following which, translation issues aside, do not appear to be direct quotes from Augustine at all. I do intend to read the entirety of the book closely to verify this. Perhaps the sentiment is there, but this looks like a shortcoming of generative LLMs that I have seen before—especially in regard to asking about specific texts.**
Fabricated or paraphrased from ChatGPT? "Speech must be so simple and plain that it can be understood without any trouble." --And--"The preacher, therefore, ought to be on fire."
When pressing ChatGPT on a summary of Book IV, it failed.
(ChatGPT) Augustine's contributions to the field of rhetoric:
Fusion of Classical Rhetoric and Christian Thought: Augustine was trained in classical rhetoric and used his rhetorical skills in his writings, especially in his early works. He combined the techniques of classical rhetoric with Christian thought to persuade and instruct his readers and listeners. This fusion allowed him to communicate Christian ideas effectively to a wider audience.
Theology and Rhetoric: In "On Christian Doctrine," Augustine explored the relationship between Christian theology and rhetoric. He argued that rhetoric could be a valuable tool for conveying Christian truths, as long as it was used in the service of God and the Church. Augustine encouraged the use of eloquence and persuasion in preaching and teaching, provided they were guided by ethical and moral principles.
Ethical Persuasion: Augustine emphasized the ethical use of rhetoric. He believed that the purpose of rhetoric should not be to deceive or manipulate, but to convey truth and goodness. He stressed the importance of using rhetorical skills in ways that would benefit the audience and promote the Christian faith.
Communication of Complex Ideas: Augustine's rhetorical skills allowed him to communicate complex theological ideas in a clear and accessible manner. His "Confessions," for example, is not only an autobiography but also a persuasive work in which he recounts his spiritual journey and conversion, making it relatable to a wide range of readers.
Influence on Medieval Rhetoric: Augustine's work on rhetoric had a lasting impact on the development of medieval rhetoric and education. His ideas on the use of rhetoric in service to the Christian faith influenced the curriculum and teaching methods in medieval universities.
Theoretical Contributions: Augustine also provided insights into the nature of signs and symbols, which are important in the study of rhetoric and semiotics. His discussions on language and signs in "On Christian Doctrine" laid the foundation for later semiotic theories.
Augustine's contributions to the field of rhetoric are significant not only for their practical application but also for their integration of classical rhetorical techniques with Christian ethics and theology. His emphasis on the ethical use of persuasive communication and his exploration of the relationship between rhetoric and the Christian faith continue to be studied and appreciated in the fields of rhetoric, communication, and theology.